Pistol Caliber Carbines For Patrol Use?
In 2022 my department went to G17.5's with Trijicon RMR's. After much teeth gnashing by the higher ups, it was approved and implemented.
To this date, our standard issued long gun is a Remington 870 SBS or 16 inch gun. Patrol rifles are optional post certification. We issue XM15 patrol rifles to our Road Patrol Deputies that opt into the program. We may purchase an optic from the approved list of optics and have it mounted by an Armorer. We are not allowed to modify the weapon. Most Deputies will use a drop in Magpul handguard to allow the mounting of a white light. For years, I utilized a Mossie tactics FSB mount because I couldn't get the weapon into our weapon racks with anything mounted on the handguard. The racks have not been changed so most Deputies store their rifles in their trunk weapon lockers.
At our monthly training event, the training division will be "evaluating a 9mm pistol caliber carbine as an optional long gun".
I have very mixed feelings on this and I feel like its a step backwards. 9mm PCC's off of the shelf are not easier to shoot than a rifle. They offer sub optimal ballistic performance to a rifle. The entire point of a rifle is to bring a superior weapon, ie a more potent cartridge to a situation that may need overmatch capability if you want to use that term. By going to a PCC we are limiting our lethality at distance. I am aware that the vast majority of LEO and Civilian based shootings do not occur at distance but in my mind, limiting capability is not the way forward. I'm not sure what advantage the department is thinking a PCC grants its users?
As an aside, like most departments, we ditched select fire Mp5's and even some .40 caliber colt pattern PCC's for rifles. We did this for a reason. It doesn't really make all that much sense to reverse this decision in 2023. Personally, I think the money would be better spent on SBR's and Suppressors for hearing preservation of the Sworn employees and the public.
I'd like some feedback on this as I plan on offering a written writeup in this regard but i'd really like some more education on this. Also, keep in mind that this pcc, at least how it was present to me is currently being evaluated for Road Patrol use, not specialty unit use where the niche implementation of an extremely short barreled weapon makes sense, ie in and around vehicles. I'm not even sure what platform we are looking at so I couldn't tell you if this was an SBR or a 16 inch gun. I will have more information on the 18th of this month. I will share as much as i'm allowed to better facilitate good discussion.
Thoughts?
Pistol Caliber Carbines For Patrol Use?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Magsz
Personally, I think the money would be better spent on SBR's and Suppressors for hearing preservation of the Sworn employees and the public.
In regards to suppressors… I run a 5.56mm AR pistol (soon to be SBR) that I keep a suppressor on it all the time. Comes out to similar length as my Colt 6920.
That being said, if hearing protection is a concern… night/day between a suppressed 5.56mm and a suppressed 9mm. I actually don’t mind my 9mm AR that is suppressed… 6” barrel, and I shoot 147 grain. I do notice the rifle caliber… 11.5” with 73 grain (I do have access to 55 grain and 62 grain options). Even with ear protection, it is noticeably loud.
We run Glock 19s at work, with the hopes that we will be given the option for the 47. For me, Glock magazines are available… 15, 17, 24 and 33 rounders. My 9mm AR takes Glock magazines, as does my KelTec (19 grip; I redid the gun completely with MCARBO parts). I do have a Beretta CX4 and a PTR 9CT, as well as a .45 AR… but 9mm Glock magazines are my go to.
Personally, I like the option of having a pistol caliber carbine. Is it better than 5.56mm? No, but it does do some things better… like suppression. I wouldn’t want to be shot with a 9mm carbine, but rather not get shot by anything. Do I go to a 9mm if I’m grabbing a longer gun? Not necessarily… unless it is all I have. I don’t really think I’d feel outgunned.
Work long guns are M4s. We used to have 14” 870s… but the Boston Field Office pulled them. Those were probably the more useful options for us, since any deployment of them would be well within 30 yards. We could have to use a long gun out to 100 yards, it is less likely. Another option is that we are one of the larger groups of Federal L/E nearby multiple schools. BP coverage stretches for about 80 miles, State Police have a lot of area to cover to include a lot of I-95, the county is the size of CT and RI combined and the locals only have a few on duty at any given time. We are told that if there was a local school shooting, we likely would be the ones to respond, so I get that M4s should be part of the mix… but I still think 870s would be useful.
Do I feel 9mm carbines should replace your 5.56mm carbines? Not really sure about it, but I do know there are places where pistol caliber carbines do work. I can’t find a situation where pistol caliber carbines would replace rifles across the board.