Options for police at these universities?

[CraigS]

First language matters. “Less lethal” not “non-lethal.”

Pepper ball guns are essentially regarded paint ball guns that shoot balls filled with OC powder instead of paint.

Gas and certain types of flash bangs are options but have risk of secondary fires and have to be use judiciously - you have to have a plan / path for the protestors to escape / disburse.

The old “hats and bats” with riot shields still works.

Yes I agree language matters. Thanks for that. This is the info I was looking for. I read a lot of stuff in both novels and the real deal but usually it is just we used this and continue the story. I haven't found much about +s and -s of options and possible downsides. Thanks.

[CraigS]

I think if they tested the fire trucks for water pressure on a few of these campuses many would find something else to do with their time.

My wife keeps saying the same thing.

[jnc36rcpd]

My current boss spent most of his career at a major state university that has seen its share or sports-related riots. His department opted for an FN-303 after seeing the county police have unimpressive results from Pepperball. When it was first deployed, cries of "Its a rifle!" rang out and the crowd immediately dispersed. Problem solved.

[paherne]

My current boss spent most of his career at a major state university that has seen its share or sports-related riots. His department opted for an FN-303 after seeing the county police have unimpressive results from Pepperball. When it was first deployed, cries of "Its a rifle!" rang out and the crowd immediately dispersed. Problem solved.

Pepperball, especially with the extra-spicy rounds they came out with 3 years ago, is the bomb. I'm not a fan of the FN 303 for a number of reasons. Shooting at the feet and letting the dust waft up is lots of fun. You're not even directly shooting the suspects. Great for area denial if you want to keep someone out of an alcove, doorway, etc.

[jnc36rcpd]

This experience was over three years ago. I'm glad to hear Pepperball upped their game.

[Cory]

The FN303 I shot as an MP was trash. I cant recall the type of round, but it was fed with a cylinder style magazine and the projectiles werent feeding well.

It was a checkbox familarization shoot. I didnt get a ton of training on it, so it's possible was doing something wrong. But a few of us had the same problem. The guys who would have the less-lethal for riot response got more training I think.

I spent a fair amount of time holding a sheild and baton, or grabbing people the sheilds moved passed. I wouldn't be thrilled to do it live. It's exhausting.

[TQP]

I think if they tested the fire trucks for water pressure on a few of these campuses many would find something else to do with their time.

I remember being told in training that that's illegal in Ohio.

Of course I just went looking and can't find that anywhere in either the revised or administrative code.

[AMC]

The FN303 I shot as an MP was trash. I cant recall the type of round, but it was fed with a cylinder style magazine and the projectiles werent feeding well.

It was a checkbox familarization shoot. I didnt get a ton of training on it, so it's possible was doing something wrong. But a few of us had the same problem. The guys who would have the less-lethal for riot response got more training I think.

I spent a fair amount of time holding a sheild and baton, or grabbing people the sheilds moved passed. I wouldn't be thrilled to do it live. It's exhausting.

The FN303 action scared the crap out of me. Somebody was gonna be careless and lose some fingers on one of those things.

We had 12 gauge supersock rounds for patrol, and special operations got 40mms. They also got the pepperball guns shortly before I retired. The SWAT guys liked them a lot.

Less-Lethal impact munitions were first introduced for us in preparation for Y2K. Policy limited their use in crowd control to essentially the Special Operations guys only. Then when things got really sporty in 2020 Admin were calling the Range for '50 extra LL outfitted 870s'. We didn't have any extra, which point had been made in my purchase order request the year before. Then they asked for more Supersock rounds....like 10,000 more...for the patrol guys to use. I asked if an emergency bulletin had been issued changing the policy. Our 'leaders' had no idea what I was talking about, and had no idea our policy restricted the use of LL weapons in crowd control. Also had no idea I had been submitting purchase order requests for Supersock ammo for 18 months, and had been denied. Good times!

[Hambo]

There are wooden baton rounds called knee knockers that are skip fired off the ground into the crowd.

Do they still make those? We found some ancient ones in storage, so of course we fired some of them. If you were just on the edge about using lethal force, that's where I'd put knee knockers today.

I remember being told in training that that's illegal in Ohio.

Of course I just went looking and can't find that anywhere in either the revised or administrative code.

Legal or not, it's pretty stupid because they don't have an endless supply of water unless hooked to a hydrant. I don't think any fire chiefs are willing to risk trucks that cost close to half a million dollars.

[Borderland]

Do they still make those? We found some ancient ones in storage, so of course we fired some of them. If you were just on the edge about using lethal force, that's where I'd put knee knockers today.



Legal or not, it's pretty stupid because they don't have an endless supply of water unless hooked to a hydrant. I don't think any fire chiefs are willing to risk trucks that cost close to half a million dollars.

Rioters have been known to torch unattended vehicles.