Good videos on teaching the draw stroke/press out

[Joe S]

Lifting the gun to your eyeline because a straight line is faster than drawing an L which is what you're doing when you draw then press out

I agree that running the hypotenuse of a triangle is undoubtedly faster than running the two legs, given the same speed.

I am far from a SME on the matter, but it seems to me that in potential defensive situations involving drawing your firearms, there are a number of reasons why it might be good to have the automated response (the draw) involve a close-in retention position and/or a compressed ready position built in. Not sure if I'm using the right term, so what I mean by "compressed ready" is the pistol pointed forward, located somewhere around wrist(s) touching sternum, maybe even a little higher, elbows tucked into the torso.

It seems to me that conflicts generally occur closer than many people assume they do. I also spend most of my time in a densely populated urban environment. That my influence my thinking.

What are your thoughts?

[Clusterfrack]

I agree that running the hypotenuse of a triangle is undoubtedly faster than running the two legs, given the same speed.

I am far from a SME on the matter, but it seems to me that in potential defensive situations involving drawing your firearms, there are a number of reasons why it might be good to have the automated response (the draw) involve a close-in retention position and/or a compressed ready position built in. Not sure if I'm using the right term, so what I mean by "compressed ready" is the pistol pointed forward, located somewhere around wrist(s) touching sternum, maybe even a little higher, elbows tucked into the torso.

It seems to me that conflicts generally occur closer than many people assume they do. I also spend most of my time in a densely populated urban environment. That my influence my thinking.

What are your thoughts?

My take is it depends on how much work we want to put in. Fighters have different punches, so there's no reason we can't have different draws. But if you're going to have only one draw, I find @SouthNarc's approach compelling for defensive purposes.

[YVK]

What are your thoughts?

The L shaped path in Todd's pressout didn't have much to do with compressed ready, urban stuff etc. It was to bring the front sight into peripheral vision asap and then microalign it on the way out to the target while working the trigger, classically a DA shot. The end point was supposed to be a confirmed sight pic and gun ready to go off at the end of extension. Many of us stopped doing the pressout after finding that timing difficult and, more importantly, the index presentation working better for us. The latter was enforced even more with the adoption of RDS.

As far as the shape of the path, I personally find that part of the discussion nearly meaningless. The time difference is inconsequential. More so, the gear and setup often dictate the path. Drawing a relatively long barreled gun from appendix will force you to lift the gun much higher and much closer to L shape than drawing the same gun from dropped and offset rig.

[jlw]

Claude Werner has a good one with stacked boxes being used as a gauge for keeping things tight:

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Yyp0SKX_cB4

I’m getting a security warning for that link.

[TCinVA]

HOWEVER, if you're from the TPI/Shivworks school of thought, you'll still draw to the thumb/pectoral index at count "2" (*depending on if you're starting from strong-side or appendix) then extend appropriately (like in the Gomez videos).

It's not just the Shivworks school of thought. The L shaped draw has a lot of benefits in the real world when we contemplate the reality that a defensive draw isn't always occurring with distant targets while we're standing static on two feet.

With the L or J shaped draw, the gun extends out toward the target in your eyeline.

Watch enough 1 second draw video footage and you'll notice how often people are breaking shots before the gun is in their eyeline using an escalator draw. You can certainly hit a static target at relatively close range when the gun is at chin level, but that's not something I want to rely on when life is on the line.

I'd much rather rock an L or J draw if I'm using the gun for lethal force. For running in competition, do whatever you want because there's no worry about using the gun against an entangled threat or moral, civil, criminal, and spiritual accountability for bullets that don't hit the intended target.

[skiingislife725]

Thanks, everyone. I am young and inexperienced, these videos help me.

[Joe S]

I’m getting a security warning for that link.

Try here: https://youtube.com/shorts/Yyp0SKX_c...PkdBj_TSZ-Xf8b

[TCinVA]

The L shaped path in Todd's pressout didn't have much to do with compressed ready, urban stuff etc.

The compressed high ready he preferred did, in fact, come directly from the FAMS. So there's absolutely a real world foundation for it. One can certainly argue that their mission profile is unique and that it has limited value based on that and it would be a fair point.

It was to bring the front sight into peripheral vision asap and then microalign it on the way out to the target while working the trigger, classically a DA shot.

This part is correct. The idea was to get the gun up into the eyeline and present while aligning the sights on the target AND working the trigger. Our permission slip for being on the trigger is when we can see that our sights are aligned on the target. We need not wait until the sights are perfectly on the exact spot of the target we are trying to hit, but if we can confirm that dude over there is our target and see our front and rear on him we can be working the trigger. This is rather important as some have taught prepping the trigger before the sights are on target, which violates the core principles of safety and strikes me as a pretty fucking awful idea in the world of using lethal force. Put people under gunfight stress who have been taught to prep a trigger with the muzzle still high? No thanks.

The end point was supposed to be a confirmed sight pic and gun ready to go off at the end of extension.

Precisely. It was using the part of the draw where the gun is driving out to the target to refine sight picture and work the trigger for a precise shot.

The latter was enforced even more with the adoption of RDS.

FWIW, the dot works just fine in an L or J shaped presentation. Instead of presenting the gun with an elevated front sight the way Todd did to facilitate finding his front sight, you just present it with the gun level or by "driving" the rear sight on the target. With the dot there's not as much refinement of sight picture going on, but it's still a great opportunity to work very deliberately through a good press of the trigger for an accurate shot.

[TCinVA]

My take is it depends on how much work we want to put in. Fighters have different punches, so there's no reason we can't have different draws. But if you're going to have only one draw, I find @SouthNarc's approach compelling for defensive purposes.

...and I'll go on record now that part of what I do is train people in a professional capacity and say that the vast majority of people who have not mastered any sort of draw stroke. That goes double for people who are sworn.

Once someone is proficient with a handgun and have some training or experience under their belt, they have the tools to make their own decisions about what they want to live with in an intelligent way.

Most people out there toting handguns still need a draw. If they are toting a handgun for the purpose of self defense, they need one that accounts for the things that happen in the real world, especially if they are required to take criminals into custody.

[cpd2110]

...and I'll go on record now that part of what I do is train people in a professional capacity and say that the vast majority of people who have not mastered any sort of draw stroke. That goes double for people who are sworn.

Once someone is proficient with a handgun and have some training or experience under their belt, they have the tools to make their own decisions about what they want to live with in an intelligent way.

Most people out there toting handguns still need a draw. If they are toting a handgun for the purpose of self defense, they need one that accounts for the things that happen in the real world, especially if they are required to take criminals into custody.

Agreed. We teach our agency the Shivworks/Kelly McCann style draw. It was taught a long time ago and the purpose was it fit with what cops may be doing no matter where we find ourselves. This could be behind the steering wheel, sitting at a table, standing and close in to a suspect, as a two person team stacked behind a shield and so on. We do however as TCinVA states allow people to adjust things as they wish, which typically happens naturally as they improve. The hard L or 90 gets a slight curve over time. I have heard and read that shooters will just know when to employ different draws based on environment. I'm not a SME but for most LE shooters I'm not sure that is true.