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Thread: ATF Raids Larry Vickers? Anyone know anything about this?

  1. #151
    Member billt460's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    ..... In a straight ATF case I would expect LAV’s service record would help mitigate his sentence.

    However, as @vcdgrips pointed out, given the Russia /sanctions aspect it may work against him since he “should have known better.” That may be part of his motivation to take a plea and cooperate.

    I’m hoping LAV gets minimal or no time as I believe for him, being a prohibited person will be more significant punishment than any BOP time.
    I couldn't agree with you more. Violating importation / sanction laws is really going to hurt him.

  2. #152
    Someone on arfcom posted that the primary target, Sean Sullivan, is the President of B&T USA. When I google “President of B&T USA,” I get Tim Nickler and Irving Luce. Can anyone confirm whether this is true or not?
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  3. #153
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WobblyPossum View Post
    Someone on arfcom posted that the primary target, Sean Sullivan, is the President of B&T USA. When I google “President of B&T USA,” I get Tim Nickler and Irving Luce. Can anyone confirm whether this is true or not?
    From this:

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/n...nsees-indicted

    Sullivan was the owner and operator of Trident, LLC, located in Gambrills, Maryland, and was also an Intelligence Analyst with the Department of Homeland Security Investigations. Sullivan and Trident were Federal Firearms Licensees (“FFLs”) and Special Occupational Taxpayers (“SOTs”), which allowed them, in certain circumstances, to possess, import, manufacture, and deal in fully automatic firearms (machineguns) and other regulated firearms. Tafoya and Vickers owned and operated firearms related businesses in New Mexico and North Carolina and were also FFLs and SOTs.
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  4. #154
    Pilgrim/Stranger awp_101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    The stuff from page 5 on is what’s relevant to what you asked.
    Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    LAV was not one of the original targets of the case and it appears the case originated with DHS Office of Inspector General (OIG) and FBI Counter Intelligence due to the Russia angle and one of the original targets having a sensitive position within DHS.
    That’s the part I either missed or didn’t grasp the significance of. I caught “analyst” in the pages posted in the twitter links but didn’t connect it with “sensitive position” for some reason.
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

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  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    Assuming he even does time, he's probably going to a minimum security facility (think Gordon Liddy, Scooter Libby, Martha Stewart). Inmates there have a strong incentive to behave, or they will end up in medium or maximum security facilities with violent criminals. Despite the BS Piper Chapman, and Gordon Liddy, have sold to people, minimum security prisons, while unpleasant, are not like being in medium or maximum security facilities.
    Not related to Larry Vickers at all. People here know me personally and I was at G. Gordon Liddys funeral in Poughkeepsie, NY. I know his family. The majority of his time was in the DC Jail followed by Lewisburg, Danbury and Terminal Island. He was only in Allenwood, the minimum security prison for the absolute tail end of his sentence. Just pointing this out.

  6. #156
    Member DMF13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Cross View Post
    Not related to Larry Vickers at all. People here know me personally and I was at G. Gordon Liddys funeral in Poughkeepsie, NY. I know his family. The majority of his time was in the DC Jail followed by Lewisburg, Danbury and Terminal Island. He was only in Allenwood, the minimum security prison for the absolute tail end of his sentence. Just pointing this out.
    Terminal Island is a minimum security facility, as is Danbury, also the main part of Lewisbirg is a medium security prison, but it has a minimum security section.
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  7. #157
    Thanks for keeping it civil, folks. Disappointing on LAV's part.
    #RESIST

  8. #158
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    Sentencing overview in very general terms follows. Custom/practice/procedures/results can vary a bit from district to district and judge to judge.

    LAV is facing an absolute statutory maximum of 25 years. 5 yrs on the conspiracy re the mgs and 20 years on the sanction stuff. That sentence would presume the the max was imposed on both and ran consecutively. While legally possible, such a result would be EXTRAORDINARILY unlikely as to both a max out and consecutive sentence under any circumstances, particularly if he is in fact cooperating.

    The sentencing in the first instance in federal court is determined by 3 things:
    A. The statutory minimum and maximums of the law violated and pled to
    B. The application of the the now advisory US Sentencing Guidelines
    C. the application of the statutory sentencing factors found at 18 USC 3553 i.e. history and characteristics of the defendant, the need to promote respect for the law, deterrence etc. all with an eye toward imposing a sentencing which is sufficient to hit all those points but no greater than necessary.

    As posted before, the anticipated guidelines are an offense level of 25. Presuming a criminal history category of I, that yields a suggested guideline range of 57-71 months
    https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2021...2021-chapter-5

    Sometimes, that offense level can go up due to certain enhancements i.e. role in the offense, amount of loss, abuse of a position of power/trust, special skills used to commit the offense etc. It is difficult to predict which enhancements will be applied without really knowing the file and/or reviewing the pre sentence report which has not even been drafted yet as he just pled guilty.

    If he is in fact cooperating to the point that the USA filed a motion for downward departure based on substantial assistance, the judge could sentence him to probation. In fact, as there is no statutory minimum, a judge could do that anyway though that happens very rarely when the guidelines are at this purported level and there is no motion by the govt.

    Re risk as a cooperator in the BOP.

    As others have stated this tends to be more of a thing with other folks. Having said that, one can stub their toe in the BOP with other inmates based on omissions/commission that occur on any given day separate and apart from any cooperation, real or perceived.

    As to the Min Security placement- IIRC, any sentence over 60 months precludes that initially. I concur that it makes sense to send him the FMC Butner in the first instance given his presumed medical needs and home. Having said that, if his cancer is really driving the train and the best BOP oncologist is somewhere else, he could be somewhere else. BOP actually gets it right most of the time with sick folks. BUT, I have had more than one "healthy" prisoner finish out their camp time at Yankton in SD where it is cold, cold cold v the camp at Leavenworth right up the road from home. Notably the Federal Medical Centers can and do handle all prisoner classifications from min to max.


    If the guidelines are in the 5-7 year range and he in fact provides substantial assistance, an incarceration sentence could still be in the cards. While the defense would argue what he has done in the past and he is sick, a prosecutor could turn the MIL/GOVT experience against him and argue that when you deal in machine guns and with foreign powers, folks got to go to prison as a deterrent to others.

    Even if you reduced the low end (50 months) by half, you are still talking a couple of years "behind the wall" so to speak.

    Good Time Credit
    Unlike many states, GTC is limited to 15% of the sentence and runs at the rate of 56 days per year max on any sentence that is 12 month and 1 day or more.

    WILD SPECULATION

    Based on my training and experience, in my district, in front of virtually any judge, his defense atty would be telling him to buckle up for 24 months minimum presume a total offense level of 25, despite the filing of a substantial assistance motion by the USA.
    I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    Terminal Island is a minimum security facility, as is Danbury, also the main part of Lewisbirg is a medium security prison, but it has a minimum security section.
    My last post on this as I do not want to turn this into the G Gordon Liddy thread. Lewisburg was a maximum security prison until 2021. It had a SHU in it at one time for America's most violent inmates. My great uncle was an Italian language translator there. John Gotti served time there in the 70s as did Jimmy the Gent Burke, Jimmy Hoffa, Tony Provenzano and Chuck Zito. They used to have a ridiculous rate of stabbings. Liddy was in there when it was Maximum security. I have said my piece and moving on: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit...ary,_Lewisburg

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by vcdgrips View Post
    Sentencing overview in very general terms follows. Custom/practice/procedures/results can vary a bit from district to district and judge to judge.

    LAV is facing an absolute statutory maximum of 25 years. 5 yrs on the conspiracy re the mgs and 20 years on the sanction stuff. That sentence would presume the the max was imposed on both and ran consecutively. While legally possible, such a result would be EXTRAORDINARILY unlikely as to both a max out and consecutive sentence under any circumstances, particularly if he is in fact cooperating.

    The sentencing in the first instance in federal court is determined by 3 things:
    A. The statutory minimum and maximums of the law violated and pled to
    B. The application of the the now advisory US Sentencing Guidelines
    C. the application of the statutory sentencing factors found at 18 USC 3553 i.e. history and characteristics of the defendant, the need to promote respect for the law, deterrence etc. all with an eye toward imposing a sentencing which is sufficient to hit all those points but no greater than necessary.

    As posted before, the anticipated guidelines are an offense level of 25. Presuming a criminal history category of I, that yields a suggested guideline range of 57-71 months
    https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2021...2021-chapter-5

    Sometimes, that offense level can go up due to certain enhancements i.e. role in the offense, amount of loss, abuse of a position of power/trust, special skills used to commit the offense etc. It is difficult to predict which enhancements will be applied without really knowing the file and/or reviewing the pre sentence report which has not even been drafted yet as he just pled guilty.

    If he is in fact cooperating to the point that the USA filed a motion for downward departure based on substantial assistance, the judge could sentence him to probation. In fact, as there is no statutory minimum, a judge could do that anyway though that happens very rarely when the guidelines are at this purported level and there is no motion by the govt.

    Re risk as a cooperator in the BOP.

    As others have stated this tends to be more of a thing with other folks. Having said that, one can stub their toe in the BOP with other inmates based on omissions/commission that occur on any given day separate and apart from any cooperation, real or perceived.

    As to the Min Security placement- IIRC, any sentence over 60 months precludes that initially. I concur that it makes sense to send him the FMC Butner in the first instance given his presumed medical needs and home. Having said that, if his cancer is really driving the train and the best BOP oncologist is somewhere else, he could be somewhere else. BOP actually gets it right most of the time with sick folks. BUT, I have had more than one "healthy" prisoner finish out their camp time at Yankton in SD where it is cold, cold cold v the camp at Leavenworth right up the road from home. Notably the Federal Medical Centers can and do handle all prisoner classifications from min to max.


    If the guidelines are in the 5-7 year range and he in fact provides substantial assistance, an incarceration sentence could still be in the cards. While the defense would argue what he has done in the past and he is sick, a prosecutor could turn the MIL/GOVT experience against him and argue that when you deal in machine guns and with foreign powers, folks got to go to prison as a deterrent to others.

    Even if you reduced the low end (50 months) by half, you are still talking a couple of years "behind the wall" so to speak.

    Good Time Credit
    Unlike many states, GTC is limited to 15% of the sentence and runs at the rate of 56 days per year max on any sentence that is 12 month and 1 day or more.

    WILD SPECULATION

    Based on my training and experience, in my district, in front of virtually any judge, his defense atty would be telling him to buckle up for 24 months minimum presume a total offense level of 25, despite the filing of a substantial assistance motion by the USA.
    Really informative, thank you for writing this out.

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