ATF Raids Larry Vickers? Anyone know anything about this?

[vcdgrips]

A sentencing can take 4-8 months under normal conditions. I have judges in my district that order the US Probation/Parole Officer to write the pre sentence investigation an have a draft to the court within 120 days. In the 1st instance, the defendant gets 14-30 days to object, we get the same to respond. Those get incorporated into a final PSI and a sentencing date is set. Extensions are granted liberally in the first instance.

When you have a higher profile case, a more serious case or a case where someone may be cooperating, the above can take a bit longer and a strategy often applied is that the prosecutor does not want the sentencing hearing of the cooperator to happen until after those who they are cooperating against have pled and/or been found guilty.

In short, It could be 12-48 months before LAV is sentenced.

[Totem Polar]

My attitude towards this mess? Fuck ‘em. They all need to go to prison. The cops should be held to a higher standard and do the max time.

With the fact that my opinion should probably count for less than that of almost anyone else posting in this thread, if I were king:

LAV would get the book thrown at him.

LAV would then get a Presidential commutation on the sentence, based on past work on behalf of the country.

LAV would then get to move on to whatever the last part of his life looks like, minus the guns, as a prohibited person.

But again, that’s just a small part of why I’m not king. I’m largely with Lon on the cops cooking up letterhead, FWEIW.[/shrug]

[willie]

Sometimes certain meds twist thinking. That might have happened with him if taking opiates for pain.

The plea deal may have included an informal agreement that he serve in a facility hear his family if he does time. Also, my unqualified opinion is that LAV's sentence will depend on what the judge chooses to do based on what prosecutors suggest. Can't the judge suspend sentences? Or decide to bring him home before complete sentence is served? This event occurred with an elderly physician friend sent to federal prison.

[WobblyPossum]

Sometimes certain meds twist thinking. That might have happened with him if taking opiates for pain.

The involvement with Kalashnikov Concern began in 2014, years before Vickers was diagnosed with cancer.

[ECS686]

Sometimes certain meds twist thinking. That might have happened with him if taking opiates for pain.

The plea deal may have included an informal agreement that he serve in a facility hear his family if he does time. Also, my unqualified opinion is that LAV's sentence will depend on what the judge chooses to do based on what prosecutors suggest. Can't the judge suspend sentences? Or decide to bring him home before complete sentence is served? This event occurred with an elderly physician friend sent to federal prison.

On bringing anyone home BOP does have a “Compassionate Rwlease” program for series but close to the end of their sentence and terminally ill inmates. BOP took a hit because they were not using it but as I retired 3 years ago stated due to pressure from Congress.

As far as Judges decisions they do have mandatory minimums for drug crimes as well as other crimes specifically firearms (BOP had a series of nationwide disturbances in 1995 due to crack laws causing a national lockdown for several weeks)

So the Judge might have their hands tied. As that is not my area here’s something if anyone wants to dive in.

http://www.ussc.gov/topic/mandatory-minimums

[TC215]

As far as Judges decisions they do have mandatory minimums for drug crimes as well as other crimes specifically firearms (BOP had a series of nationwide disturbances in 1995 due to crack laws causing a national lockdown for several weeks)

So the Judge might have their hands tied. As that is not my area here’s something if anyone wants to dive in.

http://www.ussc.gov/topic/mandatory-minimums

I don’t believe anything Vickers was charged with carries a minimum mandatory sentence.

In the last year, DOJ has instructed the United States Attorney’s Offices to not charge crimes carrying minimum mandatory sentences unless certain factors are met (violence, fentanyl, gang ties, etc.).

[JRB]

To me, the crime that merits the punishment is business dealings with Russians.

I'd have no problem with guys importing AN-94's or AK-12's.... if they found them on Russian corpses in UKR or similar.

Understanding fully there's huge differences between the letter of the law, the intent of the law, and I what I personally believe the law SHOULD be and isn't - all these problems with gaming demo letters and SOT's not doing SOT business would disappear overnight if we got rid of the Hughes amendment, and finally let regular dudes like me Form 1 an MG, and let SOT's import 'keeper' posties without demo letters.

[vcdgrips]

[my comments in brackets]

Willie says:
Sometimes certain meds twist thinking. That might have happened with him if taking opiates for pain.
[ As others have noted, the timeframe of the crimes are from at least 2014, well before the reported incident(s) of cancer.]

The plea deal may have included an informal agreement that he serve in a facility hear his family if he does time.

[At sentencing, defendants routinely ask for a particular placement. The sentencing judge routinely says they can make a recommendation but the BOP is the one that makes the designation. There is both case law and admin rules that explicitly state that a judge CANNOT order a particular defendant to a particular facility.]

Also, my unqualified opinion is that LAV's sentence will depend on what the judge chooses to do based on what prosecutors suggest.
[In my training and experience the vast majority of the time, in the vast majority of the cases, the judge weighs what the prosecution says, what the defense says and what is contained in the pre sentence report and endeavors to fashion an appropriate sentence. Sometimes, all three are relatively close, sometimes not, once in a great while the judge is on their own. Most of the time, most judges will try to support a good faith agreement negotiated between the parties even if it a bit more lenient than what the judge of probation and parole might otherwise be inclined to impose/recommend.]

Can't the judge suspend sentences?
[There are no suspended sentences like there are in state court. In federal court, the judge imposed a term of imprisonment and a term of supervised release where a defendant can be returned to prison at any point during that term of supervised release should they sufficiently violate those terms without credit for the time served on supervised release.]


Or decide to bring him home before complete sentence is served?
[“Compassionate release” is an evolving area of the law in our post covid world. Pre COVID, you pretty much had to be on your deathbed, now, not as much.]

This event occurred with an elderly physician friend sent to federal prison.

To loop back, in my district, with my judges, even as a cooperator who would presumably testify in front of a grand jury and/or in open court, he would still be looking at time in a federal facility presuming an initial sentencing guideline range of 57-71 months, even as a decorated veteran with cancer absent he being in a hospice state ( last 6 months of life).

[rcbusmc24]

Question for the lawyers...

Going forward, now that LAV is going to be a convicted felon in the nearish future how detrimental is it it have received training certs / taken classes from him if involved in a self defense shooting?

I know this is a highly hypothetical question and depends on the totality of the circumstances and such but it seems to me like not only did LAV screw over himself and his family but all those who have ever trained with him as he has introduced a line of attack on a person during court proceedings after a use of force.

I know for myself public conduct and bearing has always been a consideration for anyone that I have sought training from as I sometimes think about would I want that guy to have to testify on my behalf and have his conduct be associated with mine.

Am I thinking too far into this in reality or did self defense claims just become a touch tougher for some because of his actions?

[WobblyPossum]

If you want to admit into court information about training you received and how it played a role in your decision making, your defense attorney doesn’t have to list everything you’ve ever attended. Vickers also didn’t normally issue out certificates for students as far as I know. If you’re worried about the prosecution bringing it up to use against you, how would they know you attended his classes? Even if they find that out, what would be the relevancy to your case?