Why or Why Not an HSC 380 or an Ortgies 32?

[Outpost75]

Talk to me Goose, tell me more about why to like a 1934 Beretta in 380

Most 30s 40s ones should still run fine?

Any thoughts on the new shorted barrel German Reman imported stupid law ones

Roy Dunlap in Ordnance Went Up Front praised the M1934 as the most rugged and reliable of the WW2 era pocket pistols. The M1934 is simple and sturdy, having fewer parts than a US M1911 .45. It was in continuous production into the 1970s so that pistols, mags and spare parts are both plentiful and affordable. The M1934 remained in Italian police and miilitary service even after adoption of the 9mm M1951 and M92 The M1934 was frequently issued as a PDW to Italian personnel in civil affairs and medical assignments on UN peace missions, because it was more easily concealed and presented a lower profile. It is still favored by Italian municipal police in administrative billets and for off duty concealed carry by Federal police, forestry, financial, prisons and military. Only Italian Federal officers are authorized off duty carry and weapons must be concealed.

I had two 1960s manufacture former West German Police Walthers which both failed in the same manner. The safety shaft lever is the single point of failure. Weak point in the design. Result is that the PP and PPk series pistols do not stand up to high volume use. Got rid of both of mine after repair and bought two more Berettas. SIG P230 and P232 are solid and do not suffer this affliction. Good backup to carry in string holster in NPE.

The steel frame M1935 Beretta in 7.65 Browning, when you heavy-up the recoil springs with .380 set will stand up to steady use with Euro 77-grain Heavy Ball or S-B steel core Vz61 Scorpion ammo. I handload pulled 7.62x25 Type PS steel core or handload 90-grain, .309" diameter Hornady XTP at 0.96 OAL with 3 grains of AutoComp for 930 fps from 8cm barrel, matching .380 ACP payload and velocity. The XTP gives expansion to .40 cal penetrating 14 inches of calibrated gelatin.

The steel core 7.65 Brownjng S-B Scorpion loads defeat a lIIa vest.

[SCCY Marshal]

You have my attention but same basic single action not drop safe kinda thing right? Will need to look into more thanks

It's been years since I have a 1903 and 1910 apart side-by-side but felt that Browning had made massive improvements with the newer model.

The grip safety is stiffer and directly blocks the sear. The manual safety just locks the grip safety in it engaged position. Magazines are easier and cheaper to find, these days. While the tiny gutter sight is barely useable for target work, it is absolutely snag-free. And the slide is steel where anything can be brazed on if one so chooses.

The FN 1910 is smaller, more refined, safe, less snaggy, and totally underrated. Granted my experience begins and ends with 32 ACP examples of the 1910 and 1903.

If I can add to Outpost75's chat about the 380 ACP Beretta model 1934, it is another excellent pistol. Good general-purpose sights, good mechanical accuracy, reliable, stout as a brick shit house, acceptable trigger, a safety that is safe to use (if awkward for those with shorter thumbs), light recoil, happy to run a range of power levels of handloads within reason, and just a tactile pleasure to handle and shoot. Try one at the very least. My one and only complaint is the magazines being hard to find, particularly with serviceable feed lips that haven't been bent open.

[Ghost Dog]

Roy Dunlap in Ordnance Went Up Front praised the M1934 as the most rugged and reliable of the WW2 era pocket pistols. The M1934 is simple and sturdy, having fewer parts than a US M1911 .45. It was in continuous production into the 1970s so that pistols, mags and spare parts are both plentiful and affordable. The M1934 remained in Italian police and miilitary service even after adoption of the 9mm M1951 and M92 The M1934 was frequently issued as a PDW to Italian personnel in civil affairs and medical assignments on UN peace missions, because it was more easily concealed and presented a lower profile. It is still favored by Italian municipal police in administrative billets and for off duty concealed carry by Federal police, forestry, financial, prisons and military. Only Italian Federal officers are authorized off duty carry and weapons must be concealed.

I had two 1960s manufacture former West German Police Walthers which both failed in the same manner. The safety shaft lever is the single point of failure. Weak point in the design. Result is that the PP and PPk series pistols do not stand up to high volume use. Got rid of both of mine after repair and bought two more Berettas. SIG P230 and P232 are solid and do not suffer this affliction. Good backup to carry in string holster in NPE.

The steel frame M1935 Beretta in 7.65 Browning, when you heavy-up the recoil springs with .380 set will stand up to steady use with Euro 77-grain Heavy Ball or S-B steel core Vz61 Scorpion ammo. I handload pulled 7.62x25 Type PS steel core or handload 90-grain, .309" diameter Hornady XTP at 0.96 OAL with 3 grains of AutoComp for 930 fps from 8cm barrel, matching .380 ACP payload and velocity. The XTP gives expansion to .40 cal penetrating 14 inches of calibrated gelatin.

The steel core 7.65 Brownjng S-B Scorpion loads defeat a lIIa vest.

Did you write all this? That is an old school quality level magazine write up without hyperbole fluff.

[Ghost Dog]

It's been years since I have a 1903 and 1910 apart side-by-side but felt that Browning had made massive improvements with the newer model.

The grip safety is stiffer and directly blocks the sear. The manual safety just locks the grip safety in it engaged position. Magazines are easier and cheaper to find, these days. While the tiny gutter sight is barely useable for target work, it is absolutely snag-free. And the slide is steel where anything can be brazed on if one so chooses.

The FN 1910 is smaller, more refined, safe, less snaggy, and totally underrated. Granted my experience begins and ends with 32 ACP examples of the 1910 and 1903.

If I can add to Outpost75's chat about the 380 ACP Beretta model 1934, it is another excellent pistol. Good general-purpose sights, good mechanical accuracy, reliable, stout as a brick shit house, acceptable trigger, a safety that is safe to use (if awkward for those with shorter thumbs), light recoil, happy to run a range of power levels of handloads within reason, and just a tactile pleasure to handle and shoot. Try one at the very least. My one and only complaint is the magazines being hard to find, particularly with serviceable feed lips that haven't been bent open.

Thank you. I searched last night for FN 1910 and that's about my $350 deal limit and $550 if I really really want it limit I've only broken a few times for real quality.

On the Beretta how to carry? Figure out completely weird swivel safety motion or best you can lower half cock on? Drop safe that way or no? Or isn't really feasible chamber loaded...condition 3 quicker which not for me

[Outpost75]

Did you write all this? That is an old school quality level magazine write up without hyperbole fluff.

Yes, I AM an "old school" gun writer,

After service in USN on NRA Tech Staff 1974-84, left NRA for Ruger Engineering Dept, 1984-87. Consultant to USMC Development Center on the M16A1E1, A2 and M4..and various engineering positions in local government. Civilian writings published in American Rifleman prior to 1984, Gun Digest, International Defense Review, and since retirement a contributing author to The Fouling Shot and various blogs.

[Ghost Dog]

Yes, I AM an "old school" gun writer,

After service in USN on NRA Tech Staff 1974-84, left NRA for Ruger Engineering Dept, 1984-87. Consultant to USMC Development Center on the M16A1E1, A2 and M4..and various engineering positions in local government. Civilian writings published in American Rifleman prior to 1984, Gun Digest, International Defense Review, and since retirement a contributing author to The Fouling Shot and various blogs.

I thought it might be something like that. Impressive. I qualified Expert on an A2. If you can help me find a Ruger Security GS33 under $550 that would be amazing. I've unfortunately let two get away from me, one at an auction house that didn't realize what they had but in a state that overpays for everything. I had already bought the expensive manual. That is the design and barrel length/profile they should start making again in both .357 and 9mm to fill a certain void in their lineup being filled better by other companies now.

Thank you for the thorough reply not found on the internet often and the quality of writing not found anymore other than maybe a few sources. Though I haven't bought a gun rag in years and most magazines are going under; with the exception of USCCA magazine I get because I am still torn between their entire debacles and AOR.

In what condition, if one were to ever carry a 1934/35 would you recommend for quickest deployment that is both safe and drop safe? Let's say carried in a generic leather holster AIWB...Is the condition 3 the only good choice? Ie at half cock chamber loaded not drop safe with safety off? Safety manipulation looks strange for Condition 1....

[Outpost75]

I do not carry the M1934 in high threat environments. It is a woods companion and load test platform.

My .380 of choice for summer city CCW is a SIG P230. But my most common rural country EDC is a Colt Agent .38 Special.

In cold winter weather a 3-1/2" Colt New Service .455 is in the Hand warmer pocket of Filson packer coat.

Over the road gun is S&W 940 as concealed backup and a Beretta 92FS in the GHB.

[Ghost Dog]

Is a 230 or 232 definitely something to get before they dry up then? Even if unlikely to actually carry often, though I suppose if I ever meet a woman again I like and somewhat trust it could be a loaner or nice gift down the road.

Top of list of .380s to get?
230 or 232
Beretta 84 or BDA
Beretta 1934

Sound about right or any others to strongly consider?

What about
Astra A400 or something like that double stack 380 even if not wanting to have to Dremel Beretta mags

Speaking off Astra 300 400 600

Modern ones I would consider down the road Bersa Plus and Ruger Security 380

[Outpost75]

Is a 230 or 232 definitely something to get before they dry up then? Even if unlikely to actually carry often, though I suppose if I ever meet a woman again I like and somewhat trust it could be a loaner or nice gift down the road.

Top of list of .380s to get?
230 or 232
Beretta 84 or BDA
Beretta 1934

Sound about right or any others to strongly consider?

What about
Astra A400 or something like that double stack 380 even if not wanting to have to Dremel Beretta mags

Speaking off Astra 300 400 600

Modern ones I would consider down the road Bersa Plus and Ruger Security 380

Priority for me was to find a pair of P230s in .380 and one in 7.65mm. The 7.65 P230.can be carried cocked and locked or is also drop safe with hammer down firing first shot DA and subsequent rounds SA like the .380 version

In older pistols the Cz27, Cz50, Cz70 are all good IF you have real Cz mags, NOT Triple-K, which are junk.

Beretta 70, 84, BDA are all good.

Have not tested Bersa, etc.

[Outpost75]

I was lucky when I retired in 2011 and spent six weeks in Italy. My host was retired Col. of Carabinieri I had worked with on their M4 evaluation. He provided introductions to.Beretta, and Fiocchi and I shot in cowboy matches with the Pietta brothers. Had a great time and had large DSL 10kg overseas box shipped home and clearing US Customs with mags, barrels, cylinders and spare parts.