Benefits of laser or brighter light? For HD and outdoor carry (TLR-8AG vs X300U)

[Cookie Monster]

I remember how stoked I was with my original Surefire 6P that burned 60 lumens for one hour.

[jnc36rcpd]

I remember how stoked I was with my original Surefire 6P that burned 60 lumens for one hour.

I remember that as well. I also recall that as lights started getting brighter, I thought 200 lumens would be about the maximum to avoid self-blinding. Today I carry a 1500 lumen light as my primary duty light. My back-up and off-duty lights also top 1000 lumen.

To the OP: While lights can get too bright at some point, I'd suggest you go with a brighter light rather than a laser. If home defense is your primary defensive concern, consider experimenting with handheld lights in the house before deciding on a weapon light (one can always use another flashlight).

You mention a concern about losing your night vision after turning on the WML. Consider that once you turn on a light, a home invader probably knows your general location. While households and circumstances differ, a home defender generally should not be conducting a search of a complex property. You also should consider that you'll likely be turning on house lights sooner rather than later which will certainly wreck your night vision.

[sigsag1]

Is it just me, or does the Glock 32 seems like a suboptimal choice in general? Seems like a terrible compromise gun, when something like a 9mm Glock would be far superior for self-defense use against humans, while a 10mm or possibly a .45 ACP would be better against wildlife.

If you drop a 9mm barrel into the G32, doesn't it essentially turn into a G19, in size and function?

I've heard that new ammo technology has made 9mm much more effective, though I'm not planning to run +P ammo, so not sure if that would still be the case.

I agree the G32 might not be optimal, but what I have to work with for now (G32 (.357sig and .40), P238, and P239 in 9mm and .40).

Anyway, if you're concerned about light output, why isn't the X400U or TLR-10 on the table? Or just get an X300U/X300T and throw on a CrimsonTrace LaserGrip.

That is a really nice light, though I couldn't find any IWB holsters that would fit it, hence the choice to go with the X300U. (Planning to run a Axis Elite holster with it, and the G32)

X300 (T or U)
The whole argument of lights are going to give your position away is a matter of tactics and proper application of light. You either have light or you don’t and when you do have light more light is better.

Small lights like the TLR seven and TLR eight are compromises for guns that are carried concealed. 500 lm with Low. Candela is better than nothing but sub optimal for home defense gun.

Lasers have a few niche uses on pistols but they are very much uses at fall under the category of possible versus probable. For practical use, a pistol mounted optic is superior to a pistol mounted laser.

I also agree with default MP3 that the Glock 32 is a sub optimal choice.

A Glock 19 size gun is significantly easier to shoot well and make effective hits with in 9mm millimeter.

Thanks HCM. Seems like the X300U will be more useful. Watching videos, the U gives a better picture, are there any situations where you'd prefer the T?

I did like shooting the G19, and plan to get a 9mm conversion barrel for the G32. Wouldn't that effectively turn it into a G19, in form and function?

I was planning on carrying 147gr Federal HST in my P239 9mm - from my understanding the .357Sig was preferred because of barrier penetration (car windows, doors, etc) and knockdown power (stories of officers needing many rounds of 9mm vs 1 round of .357Sig). Would a round like the 9mm 147gr Federal HST essentially fulfill the same purpose as a .357Sig JHP from the same manufacturer?

If you want to shoot 357 SIG, I'm not gonna tell you not to. That's a different discussion.

If you've ever done any kind of night or low-light shooting, you'll quickly see the benefits of a light. People can get all hung up on "better" lights, when you really just need a light.

I've rarely seen the benefit of a laser. At longer distances, it doesn't help you more than a red dot. At minimal or "contact" distances, you're probably not using it that much anyway. (On the flip side, if you don't have a red dot then a laser might have some use.)

All that to say: I have a light on my HD Glock 17, it's basically free to put it on and forget about it. I don't have one on any of my carry guns.

I'm not too experienced with red-dots, I was just planning on running iron sights. For some reason I just like having more of an unobstructed view, perhaps with more experience I'll start using a RDS.

Seems like an (optimal) light like the X300 is more useful, I'll probably run with that option.

I was really leaning towards a laser, in theory it seems very beneficial, but it's true, I couldn't find a case in a civilian defense situation where it actually had any benefit.

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Thanks again everyone for your replies and help in choosing b/w using a laser or not.

[Default.mp3]

If you drop a 9mm barrel into the G32, doesn't it essentially turn into a G19, in size and function?

I've heard that new ammo technology has made 9mm much more effective, though I'm not planning to run +P ammo, so not sure if that would still be the case.

I agree the G32 might not be optimal, but what I have to work with for now (G32 (.357sig and .40), P238, and P239 in 9mm and .40).

Sure, you could do a drop-in barrel, but you specifically mentioned that you were only using .357 SIG and .40 S&W. I personally would 100% switch to 9mm; there is absolutely no need to use +P ammo to get excellent duty results.

That is a really nice light, though I couldn't find any IWB holsters that would fit it, hence the choice to go with the X300U. (Planning to run a Axis Elite holster with it, and the G32)

Off the Grid Concepts is my go-to recommendation for oddball shit: https://otghex.com/

I was planning on carrying 147gr Federal HST in my P239 9mm - from my understanding the .357Sig was preferred because of barrier penetration (car windows, doors, etc) and knockdown power (stories of officers needing many rounds of 9mm vs 1 round of .357Sig). Would a round like the 9mm 147gr Federal HST essentially fulfill the same purpose as a .357Sig JHP from the same manufacturer?

You should really check out @DocGKR's thread on pistol ammo: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....f-Defense-Ammo

Sufficient to say, the idea of .357 SIG somehow being better that 9mm in any meaningful fashion for self-defense except in the most niche of situations when using modern ammo is totally bunk. If anything, in most situations, 9mm is the superior option, given its lower recoil, which allows for faster follow-up shots, easier to use one-handed (e.g., when holding something you can't drop, like a child, or an arm is out of commission due to an injury), and is far cheaper to practice with.

[sigsag1]

Sure, you could do a drop-in barrel, but you specifically mentioned that you were only using .357 SIG and .40 S&W. I personally would 100% switch to 9mm; there is absolutely no need to use +P ammo to get excellent duty results.

Off the Grid Concepts is my go-to recommendation for oddball shit: https://otghex.com/

You should really check out @DocGKR's thread on pistol ammo: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....f-Defense-Ammo

Sufficient to say, the idea of .357 SIG somehow being better that 9mm in any meaningful fashion for self-defense except in the most niche of situations when using modern ammo is totally bunk. If anything, in most situations, 9mm is the superior option, given its lower recoil, which allows for faster follow-up shots, easier to use one-handed (e.g., when holding something you can't drop, like a child, or an arm is out of commission due to an injury), and is far cheaper to practice with.

Thanks Default - great resources there. After reading a lot about CCW use vs LEO anecdotal evidence, I can see how it would be rare for a civilian to be shooting through barriers or car doors, and how most defensive shootouts are 2-3 rounds and everyone scatters - in that context I can see how 9mm makes more sense. Plus buying ammo is very painful these days, any cost savings help.

I have in the past heard LEO anecdotal evidence of 9mm not having enough stopping power, do you know if that's still the case with newer 9mm ammo?

[HCM]

If you drop a 9mm barrel into the G32, doesn't it essentially turn into a G19, in size and function?

I've heard that new ammo technology has made 9mm much more effective, though I'm not planning to run +P ammo, so not sure if that would still be the case.

I agree the G32 might not be optimal, but what I have to work with for now (G32 (.357sig and .40), P238, and P239 in 9mm and .40).



That is a really nice light, though I couldn't find any IWB holsters that would fit it, hence the choice to go with the X300U. (Planning to run a Axis Elite holster with it, and the G32)





Thanks HCM. Seems like the X300U will be more useful. Watching videos, the U gives a better picture, are there any situations where you'd prefer the T?

I did like shooting the G19, and plan to get a 9mm conversion barrel for the G32. Wouldn't that effectively turn it into a G19, in form and function?

I was planning on carrying 147gr Federal HST in my P239 9mm - from my understanding the .357Sig was preferred because of barrier penetration (car windows, doors, etc) and knockdown power (stories of officers needing many rounds of 9mm vs 1 round of .357Sig). Would a round like the 9mm 147gr Federal HST essentially fulfill the same purpose as a .357Sig JHP from the same manufacturer?



I'm not too experienced with red-dots, I was just planning on running iron sights. For some reason I just like having more of an unobstructed view, perhaps with more experience I'll start using a RDS.

Seems like an (optimal) light like the X300 is more useful, I'll probably run with that option.

I was really leaning towards a laser, in theory it seems very beneficial, but it's true, I couldn't find a case in a civilian defense situation where it actually had any benefit.

----------------

Thanks again everyone for your replies and help in choosing b/w using a laser or not.

The exterior diameter of 40 and 357 Glock barrels is larger than that of 9mm so it requires a specific 40-9 conversion barrel. Same with SIG classic P-series (226/229).

I’ve had good results running Glock 23s for range purposes using just the 9 mm conversion barrel and 9 mm magazines.
Some people will go a step further and swap out the extractor and ejector as well.

However, for serious use, I would probably change the ejector and just acquire a complete 9 mm slide. I’d rather run something like a Brownell’s slide in 9 mm for a serious use.

P239s are nice shooting guns. Like the Glock 26 the 239 is a compact gun that shoots nearly as well as a full size. Even in .40.

The thing does really helped the terminal ballistics of the 9 mm is bonded bullets or the equivalent. I would be just fine caring standard velocity spear gold.or federal HST 124 grain or 147 grain. +P It’s nice to have but not strictly necessary.

[L-2]

I agree with choosing a holster first, then work backwards, then buying both holster and light at the same time.

For me, things were easier as my employer only allowed either Streamlight or Surefire; and didn't allow a laser. Hence, I've zero training or experience in using a laser.

At that time, I already owned an old Surefire X300, the bought a Streamlight TLR-1HL.
During my training class, the TLR-1HL was better due its higher light output.
I later bought a Surefire X300UA which was approximately the same as the TLR-1HL.

I think the difference at that time was ~800lumens vs 1000lumens, for the Surefire X300UA and Streamlight TLR-1HL, respectively.
I did like the brighter TLR-1HL better at that time (it was probably ~2015 or 2016).

Later, Surefire upped the output for its X300UA to also be 1000 lumens and bought one of those, too.
I used a Safariland duty holster (don't recall the model number) which allowed me to use either Surefire or Streamlight lights with my issued G17gen4.

Now retired, I'll use the Streamlight TLR-1HL on either my G23gen3 or G19gen5. I admit I don't like wearing my (unknown brand) Kydex AIWB holster made for the TLR-1HL and either compact-sized Glock as that extra length presses into my groin/belly a bit too much, although I can do it. It's more comfortable for me to wear the holster at 4 o'clock instead. Using a "Fierce Defender" brand holster for this combo.

I also haven't come into a situation of using my handguns in such a close quarters situation where I needed the light as a stand-off device. I understand the stand-off capability and think of it more as a good-to-know technique but isn't a requirement.

I also have a G19gen5MOS with a Streamlight TLR-7A attached. This light only has 500 lumens but is still a good light and would have zero stand-off capability, which is fine with me. I'm using a "Werkz" brand holster for this combo.

Overall, I like the TLR-1HL for its price (vs X300UA) and its beam seemingly being wider.
Specification-wise, I do believe the Surefire supposedly can withstand to be submerged longer and deeper than the TLR-1HL, but I've not tested this and have no need to even anticipate, anymore, coming into a situation where I'd be possibly walking through a stream/pond with my handgun submerged, then needing to draw my sidearm and needing my weapon-mounted-light (WML).

WMLs are good for me as I shoot much better with a 2-hand hold, but being an old-guy, I've got more time with a handheld light and a handgun without a WML.

[sigsag1]

Now retired, I'll use the Streamlight TLR-1HL on either my G23gen3 or G19gen5. I admit I don't like wearing my (unknown brand) Kydex AIWB holster made for the TLR-1HL and either compact-sized Glock as that extra length presses into my groin/belly a bit too much, although I can do it. It's more comfortable for me to wear the holster at 4 o'clock instead. Using a "Fierce Defender" brand holster for this combo.

I also have a G19gen5MOS with a Streamlight TLR-7A attached. This light only has 500 lumens but is still a good light and would have zero stand-off capability, which is fine with me. I'm using a "Werkz" brand holster for this combo.

Thanks L-2 for the data points, good stuff to know.

Have you tried carrying the G19 with the TLR-7A, in an AIWB setup?

I was wondering if it was much more comfortable than carrying the X300, or only marginally so.

[L-2]

sigsag1,
Yes, the TLR7A is more comfortable for me vs the TLR1HL. The X300U would feel the same as the TLR1HL due to length.

For duty or lighting up a larger-than-a-house outdoor area, I'd prefer the larger/longer/1000 lumen light, but I'm not hunting bad guys anymore.
For indoors and seldom used, the TLR7A is fine, yet still brighter than most of my present handheld lights.

I probably should re-look-at what's available in handheld lights to update my from my Streamlight Protac 1L.